Winton down in September? What %^#$

Winton Logo

We’re probably at risk of not getting that David Harding interview next time he’s in town… but we just can’t help but wonder aloud what happened with Winton in September. The estimate we’re seeing for their September performance is a negative -0.72% (and that would be their program performance, not the performance of the super high fee product you’re accessing them through).

While that’s hardly reason to sound the alarm, and Winton remains up +1.83% on the year; we’re talking the biggest player in the managed futures space being down in one of the biggest up months for managed futures in a few years (Q3 was the best quarter for managed futures since the hey days in 2008). What happened?

Well, we’re not privy to the investor letters or sector breakdown of performance just yet… (we’re not investors), but we believe it highlights an important issue for investors to consider when considering Winton. And that is the little issue with trying to access finite commodity markets with a very, very large amount of assets. Winton and Mr. Harding had $24.5 Billion under their control. And the math on that just simply makes it hard to have any meaningful exposure in markets like Lean Hogs or Corn or Palladium, where there are position limits. We covered it in this post “Can CTA’s with $1 Billion AUM Trade Grains?” and again in this newsletter “Second Guessing the Winton’s of the World.”

Harding was quoted as saying ‘don’t call us a F***ing ‘managed futures’ firm’, and he may be getting his wish if he doesn’t keep pace with those who are wanting to be known as managed futures. I’m sure he’s smarter than us and will likely get exactly what he is after in adding stock investments and other asset classes as they move away from a managed futures firm to a full on hedge fund behemoth in the Renaissance or Bridgewater mold. But for those wanting managed futures exposure – it will pay to watch just how correlated Winton will be moving forward to something like Newedge’s Trend Indicator. (it wont’ help to compare to the managed futures indices, as Winton is IN all of them… making them auto-correlate quite nicely).

One comment

  1. Calling out a fund for one bad month, when they’ve had a better track record than 99% of CTAs is just cheesy guys….

    So you’re suggesting the alternative is to purchase an emerging CTA through a small FCM like PFG Best or MF Global, that blows up?

Write a Comment

Disclaimer
The performance data displayed herein is compiled from various sources, including BarclayHedge, and reports directly from the advisors. These performance figures should not be relied on independent of the individual advisor's disclosure document, which has important information regarding the method of calculation used, whether or not the performance includes proprietary results, and other important footnotes on the advisor's track record.

Benchmark index performance is for the constituents of that index only, and does not represent the entire universe of possible investments within that asset class. And further, that there can be limitations and biases to indices such as survivorship, self reporting, and instant history.

Managed futures accounts can subject to substantial charges for management and advisory fees. The numbers within this website include all such fees, but it may be necessary for those accounts that are subject to these charges to make substantial trading profits in the future to avoid depletion or exhaustion of their assets.

Investors interested in investing with a managed futures program (excepting those programs which are offered exclusively to qualified eligible persons as that term is defined by CFTC regulation 4.7) will be required to receive and sign off on a disclosure document in compliance with certain CFT rules The disclosure documents contains a complete description of the principal risk factors and each fee to be charged to your account by the CTA, as well as the composite performance of accounts under the CTA's management over at least the most recent five years. Investor interested in investing in any of the programs on this website are urged to carefully read these disclosure documents, including, but not limited to the performance information, before investing in any such programs.

Those investors who are qualified eligible persons as that term is defined by CFTC regulation 4.7 and interested in investing in a program exempt from having to provide a disclosure document and considered by the regulations to be sophisticated enough to understand the risks and be able to interpret the accuracy and completeness of any performance information on their own.

RCM receives a portion of the commodity brokerage commissions you pay in connection with your futures trading and/or a portion of the interest income (if any) earned on an account's assets. The listed manager may also pay RCM a portion of the fees they receive from accounts introduced to them by RCM.

See the full terms of use and risk disclaimer here.

Disclaimer
The performance data displayed herein is compiled from various sources, including BarclayHedge, and reports directly from the advisors. These performance figures should not be relied on independent of the individual advisor's disclosure document, which has important information regarding the method of calculation used, whether or not the performance includes proprietary results, and other important footnotes on the advisor's track record.

Benchmark index performance is for the constituents of that index only, and does not represent the entire universe of possible investments within that asset class. And further, that there can be limitations and biases to indices such as survivorship, self reporting, and instant history.

Managed futures accounts can subject to substantial charges for management and advisory fees. The numbers within this website include all such fees, but it may be necessary for those accounts that are subject to these charges to make substantial trading profits in the future to avoid depletion or exhaustion of their assets.

Investors interested in investing with a managed futures program (excepting those programs which are offered exclusively to qualified eligible persons as that term is defined by CFTC regulation 4.7) will be required to receive and sign off on a disclosure document in compliance with certain CFT rules The disclosure documents contains a complete description of the principal risk factors and each fee to be charged to your account by the CTA, as well as the composite performance of accounts under the CTA's management over at least the most recent five years. Investor interested in investing in any of the programs on this website are urged to carefully read these disclosure documents, including, but not limited to the performance information, before investing in any such programs.

Those investors who are qualified eligible persons as that term is defined by CFTC regulation 4.7 and interested in investing in a program exempt from having to provide a disclosure document and considered by the regulations to be sophisticated enough to understand the risks and be able to interpret the accuracy and completeness of any performance information on their own.

RCM receives a portion of the commodity brokerage commissions you pay in connection with your futures trading and/or a portion of the interest income (if any) earned on an account's assets. The listed manager may also pay RCM a portion of the fees they receive from accounts introduced to them by RCM.

See the full terms of use and risk disclaimer here.

logo